One Reddit user asked:
What historical figure is completely overrated and why?
And the responses perfectly illustrate why we think that knowledge is important. Removing someone's humanity makes it easy to cast them as solely heroes or villains. In the movies it's easy to tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is, but the real world doesn't work that way.
People are capable of great acts and great art while also being terrible people. Terrible people are capable of creating beautiful things and doing good work.
If we can't learn to see humans as humans, we keep looking for "bad guys" and "villains" and miss the reddest red flags because that's not what a "bad guy" looks like in our imaginations. It lets us idolize awful people because they did that one thing we like.
So let's talk about the humanity in our historical heroes.
Imagine
i really like this one the beatles GIF by hoppip
Giphy
John Lennon was a wife-beater and an arrogant a$hole to everyone. Pretty much the entire reason why the Beatles broke up.
He abused his son as well as his wife. Yet people think he was so great because he stood on stage and said "Yeah, peace maaan." He also spoke out against materialism, yet completely embraced how rich he became. I absolutely agree with you in case you couldn't tell.
- B_9_M_7
Thank you! That guy cheated on both of his wives, beat them, left his first son with no financial support for the majority of his life and all of his will went to Yoko and his second son, as well as being a massive fcking hypocrite.
Not Throwing Away His Shot
Alexander Hamilton.
The musical touches upon some of his downsides but it also made him seem grandiose too much, and glazed over most of his objectionable aspects.
Yes, he cheated on his wife, and that's bad, but he also:
- advocates for a constitutional monarchy
- firmly believed that only the wealthy should have a say
- looked down on those less fortunate, despite coming from less fortunate circumstances himself
- advocated for corporate interests and motivations in government decisions
Basically by today's standard Hamilton was the typical modern political fat cat clawing for more money and happily supporting big business meddling in government affairs if doing so would benefit him personally.
He also made his money by marrying into one of the biggest slave-trading families around, and then helped them expand that business even further. Yet, people keep telling me Hamilton was 'against slavery'.
Tesla
Controversial opinion:
Tesla.
Dude was a brilliant engineer and was in many was screwed out of his place in history by Edison and historians. But the pendulum swung too far the other way. He's made out to be some steampunk wizard, who could have provided free energy to all the world.
Tesla was also a misogynist who supported eugenics and was crazy. Also he believed stuff that was just plain wrong, like alcohol was the elixir of life but caffeine was some terrible poison.
Mother Knows Best?
Mother Teresa was a narcissistic sociopath and big on Munchausen by Proxy. She kept her patients suffering because she knew it made her look good, she was obsessed with the "power", and knew it was easier to convert the dying to Christianity than it was to convert someone who was getting better.
She purposely caused and prolonged the suffering of people under her care because it benefited her. She was a monster and needs to have her Sainthood revoked.
She considered suffering to be a gift from God, and so didn't really go to much lengths to prevent it in the orphanages etc that she ran.
An organization of hers called Missionaries of Charity in India was found to be selling babies/children. She knew about the children being sold. You can look this up
The $20 Bill
Andrew Jackson.
He's on the $20 bill, even though he acted against the orders of the Supreme Court and violated the constitutional rights of Native Americans.
He also started a war with the Seminoles in Florida illegally, sending troops down dressed as Georgia militia to start a war that his federal army could intervene in. Then America lost that war.
Jackson started that war because Florida and the Seminole nation were a refuge for runaway slaves, but many black Seminoles were second or third generation, or the descendants of Africans who were never enslaved. The war was fought mainly to prevent Jackson and the army from rounding up and enslaving the black Seminoles.
The treaty of that war became the legal precedent for the Emancipation Proclamation.
Important For India, But Not A Good Person
Mahatma Gandhi Help GIF by INTO ACT!ON
Giphy
Gandhi. Horrific racist towards Blacks and (other) Asians as well as White people. He was important for Indian independence yes, but not a good person.
Indian here. It is actually believed by some (based on well-established and recorded facts) that Gandhi actually postponed India's independence by 20-odd years by actively discouraging armed revolutions, which were beginning to create a serious impact.
His 'ahimsa' (non-violence) policy was very partial, ignoring heinous tortures by the then government upon the prisoners of revolution, but condemning any act of violence by the revolutionaries. He actively opposed Subhas Chandra Bose, who is considered one of the greatest contributors in the freedom struggle of India.
No stranger to taking a sandal to his wife, too. Baldy little bastard.
And because he was a racist pervert who thought Black people were apes and sleeping naked with his closest followers' wives and daughters was a good idea to "test" his own chastity.
- Filgidus
Riding Daddy's Coattails To Greatness
Alexander the Great.
Little pissant rode Philip of Macedon's coattails all the way to historical greatness. He would have been nothing without the army and the military strategy built by his father. The oblique cavalry charge was a stroke of brilliance, and Alexander was such an ungrateful little sh!t that he murdered his best friend for reminding him where his military might actually came from.
I'm not sure if Alexander so much rode Philip's coattails as he stole Philip's coat and kicked him out to freeze. It's suspected that Alexander had him killed.
JFK
JFK, he did almost nothing and expanded the disastrous Vietnam war, I really don't get why he is such an iconic figure
Don't forget extreme nepotism and and a list of ladies a mile long that would #MeToo him in this day and age.
Don't forget about actively blocking Civil Rights for black people.
- jdb888
If you get killed, what you did doesn't matter much. You'll be glorified because no one wants to criticize a dead guy, especially someone who was assassinated
Barely Qualifies
A lot of "successful businessmen" are super overrated, not just as people but as being intelligent, successful, or even ruthless. Leland Stanford, for example, was a bumbling idiot who was looked down on by his co-conspirators in the railroad business because he was so stupid. It's just that he was willing to be immoral and dishonest in order to get lots of money handed to him.
It's weird reading about historical figures like him and then looking at someone like Trump and how much worship there is of his "business acumen" while listening to him speak and seeing how his business ventures worked out and realizing he barely qualifies as a used car salesman.
Winston
Winston Churchill. He was a good military tactician but an awful politician driven by narcissism and greed. He was a racist who committed atrocities overseas and was a misogynist who didn't think women should be allowed to vote.He was no more opposed to killing innocent bystanders than Hitler or Stalin - and the Irish were only ONE of the groups he slaughtered. As well as all that, he was by pretty much every account you can possibly hear of him, an extremely nasty man.
- B_9_M_7
I think people then kinda realized it though, you have to be a pretty big douche to be a wartime hero and still get voted out during said war.
To add onto that, three words: The Bengal Famine
Nice Plane, We Guess
Charles Lindbergh. He was denying the Holocaust before it was cool n 1939. The "Final Solution" wasn't approved til 1941, but in 1939 Lindbergh was loud and proud about denying that Hitler and the Nazis were discriminating against the Jews (cause that's just Zionist lies.)
And that's just one of the sh*tty things he did. He was also a prolific adulterer, an ardent white supremacist, a shill for dictators and authoritarians (as long as they were white and not Communist), a life long eugenicist, and a general a$hole.
To be fair, none of those things were really unusual in his time but it's amazing how everyone only knows him as that guy who flew a plane cross the Atlantic.
Also, it's possible he caused his son's death as a prank.
Too Hot To Breathe
Constantine the Great. He grabbed onto Christianity to make himself popular and also murdered his son and wife. Not a great dude, and actually had his wife killed by locking her in a sauna and making it too hot to breathe.
I attended a lecture by a medieval scholar who told a story of how, before chariot races, it was common for statues of Roman gods to be rolled around the arena and everyone would bow down to them. Once Constantine "converted" to Christianity, he had the heads of the statues knocked off and replaced with his own head, and the same ritual would be performed: thousands of people bowing down to the emperor-at-the-head-of-the-gods even though he claims to worship the Christian god. Then there's also the 40 ft. colossus he had built of himself. It seems he had a very large ego.
The Soundtrack Is Pretty Great
hugh jackman dance GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
Giphy
He's not exactly "historical" but P.T. Barnum is a racist guy who enabled slavery. And people are applauding the movie The Greatest Showman?
Rebel Flag, But Not A Rebel
Robert E. Lee
He was, in my opinion, maybe a worse person than any southerner that believed in slavery. Why? Because he actually didn't believe in slavery or secession, but was willing go with "his people" strictly for the reason that they were his people.
Lee didn't feel comfortable being an ACTUAL rebel and abandoning the society he happened to grow up in for his own personal sense of right and wrong- he put blind loyalty over the well-being of millions of slaves, soldiers, and innocent American townspeople.
Happy Columbus Day
Christopher Columbus.
In America we still teach kids that he was the "1st to discover America." We conveniently leave out the fact that he was a murderer and slaver who destroyed many lives and cultures.
We also don't mention how the Native Americans migrated here through the Bering Straight, or that the Vikings reached the "New World" long before Columbus.
Columbus was worse than you think. Firstly, he was not the first European to discover the Americas. (It's believed that Vikings discovered the Americas as early as 900 CE). He actually landed on a peninsula in Venezuela. He treated the Natives like garbage, and was even known to feed some of them to dogs. So, yeah. Happy Columbus Day.
- TheBoldK
Christopher Columbus
1.he kidnapped Carib women and gave them to his crew to r*pe
2.he kidnapped and enslaved more then a thousand people on Hispaniola
3.he forced the natives to collect gold for him if they didn't he would kill them
4.he would abuse the men in his crew
5.he r*ped and torture a lot of women because he saw them as gifts
A Cheese Grater To Your Brain
Ayn Rand. None of her stories/philosophy makes sense if you try to approach them from a logical viewpoint. And besides all that, the writing style is so dry and stilted that it feels like reading one of her books is like someone taking a cheese grater to your brain.
Beethoven
I went through every comment and was surprised by no mentions of Beethoven.
Was he an amazing composer/pianist? absolutely! However, he was a terrible person. I don't remember the full details and would encourage you to look up more reliable sources than some random chick on reddit, but he was basically just an ass. Not to mention he drove his nephew to suicide.
- ventext
Other Countries Did It Without Killing Tons Of People
Abraham Lincoln.
Being famous for ending slavery by killing a good chunk of the population is not really that honorable or prestigious. If I am not mistaken, few countries had major issues abolishing slavery as a whole, let alone ensuing a civil war. So what happened with America?
Finally someone said it.
Dude. You seen how bad we took having to wear cloth masks in public places?
- paraouji
This certainly makes us see things in a totally new light!
Do you have anything to add? Let us know in the comments below!
One Reddit user asked:
What historical figure is completely overrated and why?
And the responses perfectly illustrate why we think that knowledge is important. Removing someone's humanity makes it easy to cast them as solely heroes or villains. In the movies it's easy to tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is, but the real world doesn't work that way.
People are capable of great acts and great art while also being terrible people. Terrible people are capable of creating beautiful things and doing good work.
If we can't learn to see humans as humans, we keep looking for "bad guys" and "villains" and miss the reddest red flags because that's not what a "bad guy" looks like in our imaginations. It lets us idolize awful people because they did that one thing we like.
So let's talk about the humanity in our historical heroes.
Imagine
i really like this one the beatles GIF by hoppip
Giphy
John Lennon was a wife-beater and an arrogant a$hole to everyone. Pretty much the entire reason why the Beatles broke up.
He abused his son as well as his wife. Yet people think he was so great because he stood on stage and said "Yeah, peace maaan." He also spoke out against materialism, yet completely embraced how rich he became. I absolutely agree with you in case you couldn't tell.
- B_9_M_7
Thank you! That guy cheated on both of his wives, beat them, left his first son with no financial support for the majority of his life and all of his will went to Yoko and his second son, as well as being a massive fcking hypocrite.
Not Throwing Away His Shot
Alexander Hamilton.
The musical touches upon some of his downsides but it also made him seem grandiose too much, and glazed over most of his objectionable aspects.
Yes, he cheated on his wife, and that's bad, but he also:
- advocates for a constitutional monarchy
- firmly believed that only the wealthy should have a say
- looked down on those less fortunate, despite coming from less fortunate circumstances himself
- advocated for corporate interests and motivations in government decisions
Basically by today's standard Hamilton was the typical modern political fat cat clawing for more money and happily supporting big business meddling in government affairs if doing so would benefit him personally.
He also made his money by marrying into one of the biggest slave-trading families around, and then helped them expand that business even further. Yet, people keep telling me Hamilton was 'against slavery'.
Tesla
Controversial opinion:
Tesla.
Dude was a brilliant engineer and was in many was screwed out of his place in history by Edison and historians. But the pendulum swung too far the other way. He's made out to be some steampunk wizard, who could have provided free energy to all the world.
Tesla was also a misogynist who supported eugenics and was crazy. Also he believed stuff that was just plain wrong, like alcohol was the elixir of life but caffeine was some terrible poison.
Mother Knows Best?
Mother Teresa was a narcissistic sociopath and big on Munchausen by Proxy. She kept her patients suffering because she knew it made her look good, she was obsessed with the "power", and knew it was easier to convert the dying to Christianity than it was to convert someone who was getting better.
She purposely caused and prolonged the suffering of people under her care because it benefited her. She was a monster and needs to have her Sainthood revoked.
She considered suffering to be a gift from God, and so didn't really go to much lengths to prevent it in the orphanages etc that she ran.
An organization of hers called Missionaries of Charity in India was found to be selling babies/children. She knew about the children being sold. You can look this up
The $20 Bill
Andrew Jackson.
He's on the $20 bill, even though he acted against the orders of the Supreme Court and violated the constitutional rights of Native Americans.
He also started a war with the Seminoles in Florida illegally, sending troops down dressed as Georgia militia to start a war that his federal army could intervene in. Then America lost that war.
Jackson started that war because Florida and the Seminole nation were a refuge for runaway slaves, but many black Seminoles were second or third generation, or the descendants of Africans who were never enslaved. The war was fought mainly to prevent Jackson and the army from rounding up and enslaving the black Seminoles.
The treaty of that war became the legal precedent for the Emancipation Proclamation.
Important For India, But Not A Good Person
Mahatma Gandhi Help GIF by INTO ACT!ON
Giphy
Gandhi. Horrific racist towards Blacks and (other) Asians as well as White people. He was important for Indian independence yes, but not a good person.
Indian here. It is actually believed by some (based on well-established and recorded facts) that Gandhi actually postponed India's independence by 20-odd years by actively discouraging armed revolutions, which were beginning to create a serious impact.
His 'ahimsa' (non-violence) policy was very partial, ignoring heinous tortures by the then government upon the prisoners of revolution, but condemning any act of violence by the revolutionaries. He actively opposed Subhas Chandra Bose, who is considered one of the greatest contributors in the freedom struggle of India.
No stranger to taking a sandal to his wife, too. Baldy little bastard.
And because he was a racist pervert who thought Black people were apes and sleeping naked with his closest followers' wives and daughters was a good idea to "test" his own chastity.
- Filgidus
Riding Daddy's Coattails To Greatness
Alexander the Great.
Little pissant rode Philip of Macedon's coattails all the way to historical greatness. He would have been nothing without the army and the military strategy built by his father. The oblique cavalry charge was a stroke of brilliance, and Alexander was such an ungrateful little sh!t that he murdered his best friend for reminding him where his military might actually came from.
I'm not sure if Alexander so much rode Philip's coattails as he stole Philip's coat and kicked him out to freeze. It's suspected that Alexander had him killed.
JFK
JFK, he did almost nothing and expanded the disastrous Vietnam war, I really don't get why he is such an iconic figure
Don't forget extreme nepotism and and a list of ladies a mile long that would #MeToo him in this day and age.
Don't forget about actively blocking Civil Rights for black people.
- jdb888
If you get killed, what you did doesn't matter much. You'll be glorified because no one wants to criticize a dead guy, especially someone who was assassinated
Barely Qualifies
A lot of "successful businessmen" are super overrated, not just as people but as being intelligent, successful, or even ruthless. Leland Stanford, for example, was a bumbling idiot who was looked down on by his co-conspirators in the railroad business because he was so stupid. It's just that he was willing to be immoral and dishonest in order to get lots of money handed to him.
It's weird reading about historical figures like him and then looking at someone like Trump and how much worship there is of his "business acumen" while listening to him speak and seeing how his business ventures worked out and realizing he barely qualifies as a used car salesman.
Winston
Winston Churchill. He was a good military tactician but an awful politician driven by narcissism and greed. He was a racist who committed atrocities overseas and was a misogynist who didn't think women should be allowed to vote.He was no more opposed to killing innocent bystanders than Hitler or Stalin - and the Irish were only ONE of the groups he slaughtered. As well as all that, he was by pretty much every account you can possibly hear of him, an extremely nasty man.
- B_9_M_7
I think people then kinda realized it though, you have to be a pretty big douche to be a wartime hero and still get voted out during said war.
To add onto that, three words: The Bengal Famine
Nice Plane, We Guess
Charles Lindbergh. He was denying the Holocaust before it was cool n 1939. The "Final Solution" wasn't approved til 1941, but in 1939 Lindbergh was loud and proud about denying that Hitler and the Nazis were discriminating against the Jews (cause that's just Zionist lies.)
And that's just one of the sh*tty things he did. He was also a prolific adulterer, an ardent white supremacist, a shill for dictators and authoritarians (as long as they were white and not Communist), a life long eugenicist, and a general a$hole.
To be fair, none of those things were really unusual in his time but it's amazing how everyone only knows him as that guy who flew a plane cross the Atlantic.
Also, it's possible he caused his son's death as a prank.
Too Hot To Breathe
Constantine the Great. He grabbed onto Christianity to make himself popular and also murdered his son and wife. Not a great dude, and actually had his wife killed by locking her in a sauna and making it too hot to breathe.
I attended a lecture by a medieval scholar who told a story of how, before chariot races, it was common for statues of Roman gods to be rolled around the arena and everyone would bow down to them. Once Constantine "converted" to Christianity, he had the heads of the statues knocked off and replaced with his own head, and the same ritual would be performed: thousands of people bowing down to the emperor-at-the-head-of-the-gods even though he claims to worship the Christian god. Then there's also the 40 ft. colossus he had built of himself. It seems he had a very large ego.
The Soundtrack Is Pretty Great
hugh jackman dance GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
Giphy
He's not exactly "historical" but P.T. Barnum is a racist guy who enabled slavery. And people are applauding the movie The Greatest Showman?
Rebel Flag, But Not A Rebel
Robert E. Lee
He was, in my opinion, maybe a worse person than any southerner that believed in slavery. Why? Because he actually didn't believe in slavery or secession, but was willing go with "his people" strictly for the reason that they were his people.
Lee didn't feel comfortable being an ACTUAL rebel and abandoning the society he happened to grow up in for his own personal sense of right and wrong- he put blind loyalty over the well-being of millions of slaves, soldiers, and innocent American townspeople.
Happy Columbus Day
Christopher Columbus.
In America we still teach kids that he was the "1st to discover America." We conveniently leave out the fact that he was a murderer and slaver who destroyed many lives and cultures.
We also don't mention how the Native Americans migrated here through the Bering Straight, or that the Vikings reached the "New World" long before Columbus.
Columbus was worse than you think. Firstly, he was not the first European to discover the Americas. (It's believed that Vikings discovered the Americas as early as 900 CE). He actually landed on a peninsula in Venezuela. He treated the Natives like garbage, and was even known to feed some of them to dogs. So, yeah. Happy Columbus Day.
- TheBoldK
Christopher Columbus
1.he kidnapped Carib women and gave them to his crew to r*pe
2.he kidnapped and enslaved more then a thousand people on Hispaniola
3.he forced the natives to collect gold for him if they didn't he would kill them
4.he would abuse the men in his crew
5.he r*ped and torture a lot of women because he saw them as gifts
A Cheese Grater To Your Brain
Ayn Rand. None of her stories/philosophy makes sense if you try to approach them from a logical viewpoint. And besides all that, the writing style is so dry and stilted that it feels like reading one of her books is like someone taking a cheese grater to your brain.
Beethoven
I went through every comment and was surprised by no mentions of Beethoven.
Was he an amazing composer/pianist? absolutely! However, he was a terrible person. I don't remember the full details and would encourage you to look up more reliable sources than some random chick on reddit, but he was basically just an ass. Not to mention he drove his nephew to suicide.
- ventext
Other Countries Did It Without Killing Tons Of People
Abraham Lincoln.
Being famous for ending slavery by killing a good chunk of the population is not really that honorable or prestigious. If I am not mistaken, few countries had major issues abolishing slavery as a whole, let alone ensuing a civil war. So what happened with America?
Finally someone said it.
Dude. You seen how bad we took having to wear cloth masks in public places?
- paraouji
This certainly makes us see things in a totally new light!
Do you have anything to add? Let us know in the comments below!
One Reddit user asked:
What historical figure is completely overrated and why?
And the responses perfectly illustrate why we think that knowledge is important. Removing someone's humanity makes it easy to cast them as solely heroes or villains. In the movies it's easy to tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is, but the real world doesn't work that way.
People are capable of great acts and great art while also being terrible people. Terrible people are capable of creating beautiful things and doing good work.
If we can't learn to see humans as humans, we keep looking for "bad guys" and "villains" and miss the reddest red flags because that's not what a "bad guy" looks like in our imaginations. It lets us idolize awful people because they did that one thing we like.
So let's talk about the humanity in our historical heroes.
Imagine
i really like this one the beatles GIF by hoppip
Giphy
John Lennon was a wife-beater and an arrogant a$hole to everyone. Pretty much the entire reason why the Beatles broke up.
He abused his son as well as his wife. Yet people think he was so great because he stood on stage and said "Yeah, peace maaan." He also spoke out against materialism, yet completely embraced how rich he became. I absolutely agree with you in case you couldn't tell.
- B_9_M_7
Thank you! That guy cheated on both of his wives, beat them, left his first son with no financial support for the majority of his life and all of his will went to Yoko and his second son, as well as being a massive fcking hypocrite.
Not Throwing Away His Shot
Alexander Hamilton.
The musical touches upon some of his downsides but it also made him seem grandiose too much, and glazed over most of his objectionable aspects.
Yes, he cheated on his wife, and that's bad, but he also:
- advocates for a constitutional monarchy
- firmly believed that only the wealthy should have a say
- looked down on those less fortunate, despite coming from less fortunate circumstances himself
- advocated for corporate interests and motivations in government decisions
Basically by today's standard Hamilton was the typical modern political fat cat clawing for more money and happily supporting big business meddling in government affairs if doing so would benefit him personally.
He also made his money by marrying into one of the biggest slave-trading families around, and then helped them expand that business even further. Yet, people keep telling me Hamilton was 'against slavery'.
Tesla
Controversial opinion:
Tesla.
Dude was a brilliant engineer and was in many was screwed out of his place in history by Edison and historians. But the pendulum swung too far the other way. He's made out to be some steampunk wizard, who could have provided free energy to all the world.
Tesla was also a misogynist who supported eugenics and was crazy. Also he believed stuff that was just plain wrong, like alcohol was the elixir of life but caffeine was some terrible poison.
Mother Knows Best?
Mother Teresa was a narcissistic sociopath and big on Munchausen by Proxy. She kept her patients suffering because she knew it made her look good, she was obsessed with the "power", and knew it was easier to convert the dying to Christianity than it was to convert someone who was getting better.
She purposely caused and prolonged the suffering of people under her care because it benefited her. She was a monster and needs to have her Sainthood revoked.
She considered suffering to be a gift from God, and so didn't really go to much lengths to prevent it in the orphanages etc that she ran.
An organization of hers called Missionaries of Charity in India was found to be selling babies/children. She knew about the children being sold. You can look this up
The $20 Bill
Andrew Jackson.
He's on the $20 bill, even though he acted against the orders of the Supreme Court and violated the constitutional rights of Native Americans.
He also started a war with the Seminoles in Florida illegally, sending troops down dressed as Georgia militia to start a war that his federal army could intervene in. Then America lost that war.
Jackson started that war because Florida and the Seminole nation were a refuge for runaway slaves, but many black Seminoles were second or third generation, or the descendants of Africans who were never enslaved. The war was fought mainly to prevent Jackson and the army from rounding up and enslaving the black Seminoles.
The treaty of that war became the legal precedent for the Emancipation Proclamation.
Important For India, But Not A Good Person
Mahatma Gandhi Help GIF by INTO ACT!ON
Giphy
Gandhi. Horrific racist towards Blacks and (other) Asians as well as White people. He was important for Indian independence yes, but not a good person.
Indian here. It is actually believed by some (based on well-established and recorded facts) that Gandhi actually postponed India's independence by 20-odd years by actively discouraging armed revolutions, which were beginning to create a serious impact.
His 'ahimsa' (non-violence) policy was very partial, ignoring heinous tortures by the then government upon the prisoners of revolution, but condemning any act of violence by the revolutionaries. He actively opposed Subhas Chandra Bose, who is considered one of the greatest contributors in the freedom struggle of India.
No stranger to taking a sandal to his wife, too. Baldy little bastard.
And because he was a racist pervert who thought Black people were apes and sleeping naked with his closest followers' wives and daughters was a good idea to "test" his own chastity.
- Filgidus
Riding Daddy's Coattails To Greatness
Alexander the Great.
Little pissant rode Philip of Macedon's coattails all the way to historical greatness. He would have been nothing without the army and the military strategy built by his father. The oblique cavalry charge was a stroke of brilliance, and Alexander was such an ungrateful little sh!t that he murdered his best friend for reminding him where his military might actually came from.
I'm not sure if Alexander so much rode Philip's coattails as he stole Philip's coat and kicked him out to freeze. It's suspected that Alexander had him killed.
JFK
JFK, he did almost nothing and expanded the disastrous Vietnam war, I really don't get why he is such an iconic figure
Don't forget extreme nepotism and and a list of ladies a mile long that would #MeToo him in this day and age.
Don't forget about actively blocking Civil Rights for black people.
- jdb888
If you get killed, what you did doesn't matter much. You'll be glorified because no one wants to criticize a dead guy, especially someone who was assassinated
Barely Qualifies
A lot of "successful businessmen" are super overrated, not just as people but as being intelligent, successful, or even ruthless. Leland Stanford, for example, was a bumbling idiot who was looked down on by his co-conspirators in the railroad business because he was so stupid. It's just that he was willing to be immoral and dishonest in order to get lots of money handed to him.
It's weird reading about historical figures like him and then looking at someone like Trump and how much worship there is of his "business acumen" while listening to him speak and seeing how his business ventures worked out and realizing he barely qualifies as a used car salesman.
Winston
Winston Churchill. He was a good military tactician but an awful politician driven by narcissism and greed. He was a racist who committed atrocities overseas and was a misogynist who didn't think women should be allowed to vote.He was no more opposed to killing innocent bystanders than Hitler or Stalin - and the Irish were only ONE of the groups he slaughtered. As well as all that, he was by pretty much every account you can possibly hear of him, an extremely nasty man.
- B_9_M_7
I think people then kinda realized it though, you have to be a pretty big douche to be a wartime hero and still get voted out during said war.
To add onto that, three words: The Bengal Famine
Nice Plane, We Guess
Charles Lindbergh. He was denying the Holocaust before it was cool n 1939. The "Final Solution" wasn't approved til 1941, but in 1939 Lindbergh was loud and proud about denying that Hitler and the Nazis were discriminating against the Jews (cause that's just Zionist lies.)
And that's just one of the sh*tty things he did. He was also a prolific adulterer, an ardent white supremacist, a shill for dictators and authoritarians (as long as they were white and not Communist), a life long eugenicist, and a general a$hole.
To be fair, none of those things were really unusual in his time but it's amazing how everyone only knows him as that guy who flew a plane cross the Atlantic.
Also, it's possible he caused his son's death as a prank.
Too Hot To Breathe
Constantine the Great. He grabbed onto Christianity to make himself popular and also murdered his son and wife. Not a great dude, and actually had his wife killed by locking her in a sauna and making it too hot to breathe.
I attended a lecture by a medieval scholar who told a story of how, before chariot races, it was common for statues of Roman gods to be rolled around the arena and everyone would bow down to them. Once Constantine "converted" to Christianity, he had the heads of the statues knocked off and replaced with his own head, and the same ritual would be performed: thousands of people bowing down to the emperor-at-the-head-of-the-gods even though he claims to worship the Christian god. Then there's also the 40 ft. colossus he had built of himself. It seems he had a very large ego.
The Soundtrack Is Pretty Great
hugh jackman dance GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
Giphy
He's not exactly "historical" but P.T. Barnum is a racist guy who enabled slavery. And people are applauding the movie The Greatest Showman?
Rebel Flag, But Not A Rebel
Robert E. Lee
He was, in my opinion, maybe a worse person than any southerner that believed in slavery. Why? Because he actually didn't believe in slavery or secession, but was willing go with "his people" strictly for the reason that they were his people.
Lee didn't feel comfortable being an ACTUAL rebel and abandoning the society he happened to grow up in for his own personal sense of right and wrong- he put blind loyalty over the well-being of millions of slaves, soldiers, and innocent American townspeople.
Happy Columbus Day
Christopher Columbus.
In America we still teach kids that he was the "1st to discover America." We conveniently leave out the fact that he was a murderer and slaver who destroyed many lives and cultures.
We also don't mention how the Native Americans migrated here through the Bering Straight, or that the Vikings reached the "New World" long before Columbus.
Columbus was worse than you think. Firstly, he was not the first European to discover the Americas. (It's believed that Vikings discovered the Americas as early as 900 CE). He actually landed on a peninsula in Venezuela. He treated the Natives like garbage, and was even known to feed some of them to dogs. So, yeah. Happy Columbus Day.
- TheBoldK
Christopher Columbus
1.he kidnapped Carib women and gave them to his crew to r*pe
2.he kidnapped and enslaved more then a thousand people on Hispaniola
3.he forced the natives to collect gold for him if they didn't he would kill them
4.he would abuse the men in his crew
5.he r*ped and torture a lot of women because he saw them as gifts
A Cheese Grater To Your Brain
Ayn Rand. None of her stories/philosophy makes sense if you try to approach them from a logical viewpoint. And besides all that, the writing style is so dry and stilted that it feels like reading one of her books is like someone taking a cheese grater to your brain.
Beethoven
I went through every comment and was surprised by no mentions of Beethoven.
Was he an amazing composer/pianist? absolutely! However, he was a terrible person. I don't remember the full details and would encourage you to look up more reliable sources than some random chick on reddit, but he was basically just an ass. Not to mention he drove his nephew to suicide.
- ventext
Other Countries Did It Without Killing Tons Of People
Abraham Lincoln.
Being famous for ending slavery by killing a good chunk of the population is not really that honorable or prestigious. If I am not mistaken, few countries had major issues abolishing slavery as a whole, let alone ensuing a civil war. So what happened with America?
Finally someone said it.
Dude. You seen how bad we took having to wear cloth masks in public places?
- paraouji
This certainly makes us see things in a totally new light!
Do you have anything to add? Let us know in the comments below!
Sometimes there's no comparable societal expectation or idea.
Yeah, if you haven't guessed by now, we're talking about the kinds of things that border on impossible for women to explain to men and have them gain a full understanding of it.
Things started with a simple question on Reddit:
Women of Reddit, what's the hardest thing to explain to men?
And yeah, you're going to get some talk about periods - that's the obvious. But you might be shocked and maybe even a little enlightened to read where things go from there.
Starting With The Obvious
Giphy
The feeling of your uterus shedding it's skin inside of you.
Best description I can give is to imagine something living inside of you, just between your genetalia and belly button, that is carving into you with a knife. Then also, you get bloated, you get acne, you get super emotional, and you still have to go to work.
- envy_313
Can we talk about tryna poop during all this???
Don't Change
When we say something feels good that means don't freaking change it. Don't go faster, don't try to add more, just keep it at the same.
As a dude, even if we understand it, we suddenly become hyperaware of everything we're doing so something gets messed up because we overthink it.
Unsolicited
Unsolicited peen pics aren't a turn on.
Thank you!
I don't think most women admire them as much as men admire breasts. It's just not an attractive part of a male (not for me, anyway). They're very useful, but I'd rather see his face, his muscles, his legs, his butt...
But solicited ones are great, my husband has sent me one when he's been upstairs at home and I'm downstairs. Let's me know what's up (pun intended).
I used to think the whole unsolicited pic thing was hugely exaggerated because I couldn't imagine anyone I knew sending one and had never heard of anyone I know sending one.
Then one day I was talking to my younger sister about it, and we'd had a few drinks so she decided to name and shame some people who had sent her some. Some of whom I knew from back in school and was extremely surprised about.
Then it hit my that guys don't tell other guys that they send girls unsolicited dick pic cause it's embarrassing. But they're everywhere.
Messed Up Emotional Upbringings
- A lot of us have been raised to do most of the emotional labor around the house, which includes being privy to escalating situations by noticing even the most seemingly insignificant changes in people. This is part of why what men regard as "hints" that they never catch are very obvious signs to women. Also why a lot of us think our bfs are mad at us when they suddenly go quiet :/ at least that's how it was in my household...quiet usually meant someone was about to pop off.
- "Why do women say they're fine when they're not?" Because a lot of us have been raised to keep our needs to ourselves and to not be "needy" or "a nag".
Neither of the above are excuses for the situations that arise...just possible explanations...I really enjoy reading the threads like this that ask men for their input. Both of us are victims of messed up emotional upbringings.
Not How It Works
Having sex with numerous people doesn't loosen a damn vagina! And somehow a lot of men don't understand this
- envy_313
"So how many women have you been with?"
"Tons."
"Wow. Guess your manhood must be pretty bendy and limp by now, huh?"
Constant Fear
The feeling of being always scared.
Scared at night
Scared in a 1-1 meeting with a male college who is angry
Scared of standing up against sexual harassment
Scared of being called a liar if you call somebody out on there sh!t or being told "it was just a joke"
Scared with tradies in your house when you're alone
Scared of the guy on the bus talking to you while staring at anything but your face
Scared on being in a taxi or Uber alone
Just the general feeling that it's never safe. I live in a safe suburb in a relatively safe city in a relatively safe country. Yet we are always on high alert.
Advice from early childhood into adulthood: Walk with a friend. Tell somebody where you are going. Carry your keys in between your fingers. Etc.
And that constant fear is so normalized, most of us don't recognize it as fear. Because we're taught that mature, responsible, smart women always fear for their safety. So there's almost a weird sense of security in that constant fear.
Oh, and also reminding other women to be afraid means you care, not that you're an alarmist psycho.
Just People
That we're just people, like you. We're not mysterious, soft creatures. We're not an endless fountain of emotional nurturing, in fact, many of us are just as bad at expressing our emotions or comforting people as you are.
We have hopes, dreams, interests, strengths and weaknesses. We don't all cry. We don't necessarily give a sh!t about clothes, or makeup, or decorating, or child-rearing. We aren't a monolith and we aren't all alike, we vary as individuals just like you.
We too sit around doing or thinking about dumb stuff. Yes, as a kid I also built weapons out of sticks, or tried to mix household chemicals together to make them explode, or all manner of things we only attribute to boys.
If you ask me what I'm thinking, there's a good chance it's some inane random bullshit about who would beat who in a fight, or what superpower I would hate to have.
We're just like you, in many ways.
Manage Your Life
We have absolutely zero desire to clean up after you or babysit your life like you're a toddler. You're grown. Clean up your crap. Manage your life. Pull your weight. Quit bitching about how much work it all is, and how it keeps you from doing the things you'd rather spend your time on—we know because we're fucking doing your share of it, and it's wasting OUR time that we would rather spend on other things.
This, plus, don't say "I'll help, just tell me what needs to be done."
You're grown. We shouldn't have to tell you to pull your weight around the house or manage your chores as if you're a child.
These Conspiracy Theories Are Easy to Debunk | George Takei’s Oh Myyy
Betrayed
What it's like for your body to betray you constantly. It's hard to explain how my body doesn't feel like mine anymore but it bleeds and hurts and makes me emotional against my will. When I first learned this would be my reality for my entire adult life I felt a deep devastation and betrayal, which is a feeling I don't think most men have felt.
- Vamand
Pretty Hurts
Giphy
Being seen as attractive does not necessarily raise your sense of self-worth. It's an odd contradiction, as we're implicitly told to look attractive from a young age. So you'd think achieving that goal would make you very happy. And in ads beautiful people all live happy lives.
But to be looked at like a f*ckable object doesn't make me feel good about myself. I even tried posting on r/gonewild to see if it was just the public aspect of people staring, and felt just a slight feeling of shame from the well-intentioned comments. The way you look on the outside changes nothing about how you feel about yourself.
In fact, being regularly perceived as on the attractive side earns a lot of cold shoulders, dismissive attitudes, instant disapproval and snap-judgments by men and women alike. Over the years I've surmised it to be some form of "It's my turn to show this girl that looks don't get you everything."
Except it's multiple people, everywhere I go, my whole life. I'm afraid of women and have no girl friends. Men constantly ask me if I'm good at math. I can't look people in the eyes anymore.
The Name Game
Why I don't want to take someone else's name. My names MINE I like it and I want to keep it
This was something my ex husband could not wrap his head around, he took it as a personal insult when I double barrelled my name instead of just taking his, and when I suggested he also double barrell his name he openly laughed in my face.
That's The Point
You saying that you feel uncomfortable when we try and tell you about harassment that we've experienced is kinda of the point. We're uncomfortable too, and scared.
I've tried to tell a few of my guy friends about stuff that's happened to me and they've all asked me to end the conversation because it made them feel sick. They're good friends, they just can't handle it, and neither can the majority of others I've mentioned it to.
- Lexa578
Meat Curtains
Some women are self conscious about the appearance of their genitals. Hearing men joke about "meat curtains" and making fun of it is crushing. I once had a guy in my friend group after saying how he could never sleep with a girl with large labia minora because they're ugly try to get me in bed. That was a hard turn down and he didn't know why. My vulva isn't pretty and tucked in like many women's are, and only after I hit the age of 25 did I realize that most people don't care. Maybe it is the people I chose to be in my life but I have never sat around with girls talking about small dicks or foreskin and how they're gross. Never once heard a small dick joke beyond a male making it. Why ruin your chances with 50% of women by telling them (inadvertently) that their genitals are gross? It hurts us too.Good, But Not THAT Good
My two male roommates genuinely believe that penetration from the penis is one of the most godly, nut-worthy feelings on earth and they're always mad they won't be able to feel it but boy... are they wrong.
Calm Down
Giphy
I'm not mad and stop telling me to calm the fuck down. Just because I express my self in a very straight forward, no nonsense way, does not mean I'm angry or mad. It just means that I'm not afraid to voice my opinions and thoughts and I couldn't care less if you judge me for what I have to say.
The amount of times I've been told to "calm down" or "why you acting so crazy" or "you don't need to be rude" is endless and honestly I'd be a fcking millionaire if I got paid a dollar every time a man said those things to me.
When I'm mad, I'll let you know and if you cannot handle me being blunt and honest to you, please don't get pissed off and start calling me names, or else I'll be forced to ask "maybe you need to calm down?"
Emotional Labor
The concept of emotional labor.
It's so hard to explain that I spend 3+ hours a day thinking about all the other moving parts in our lives, while my boyfriend is "stressed about work." Especially when I'm also the breadwinner in the relationship and the one in a much more senior position despite being a couple years younger.
And yet, he can't understand, that sometimes I just want him to do the laundry without me having to ask. He thinks I "should just ask" the asking is part of the labor.
Choo Choo
That I have all sorts of different trains of thought choo-chooing through my mind at all times. My brain is a web browser with too many tabs open and I can't just close them. I must continually cycle through them until they are settled. Telling me to stop worrying about things will not magically stop the cycle.
Want, Not Need
Just because I don't act like I need you, doesn't mean I don't want you. I'm independent and my man communicated when we first got together that he felt a bit insecure because I didn't "need" him around.
We talked extensively, and I basically explained that because I had been single for so long, no, technically I didn't need him. At least not in the physical sense. I'd been doing everything myself for YEARS and I was just used to it. But I did need him emotionally, and more importantly, I WANTED him. And IMO, being wanted is so much better. What happens when someone who needs you, suddenly stops needing you? Then you have no further value to them. I crave him on every level, from friendship, to emotional, to physical. My body just naturally gravitates toward him.
Granted my man had some self-esteem issues from previous relationships, and we've been working together on that, but I've made more of an effort to ask for his help when something I need to do is difficult. I COULD do it, but I know he would appreciate me asking him for help.
- leese216
Sometimes there's no comparable societal expectation or idea.
Yeah, if you haven't guessed by now, we're talking about the kinds of things that border on impossible for women to explain to men and have them gain a full understanding of it.
Things started with a simple question on Reddit:
Women of Reddit, what's the hardest thing to explain to men?
And yeah, you're going to get some talk about periods - that's the obvious. But you might be shocked and maybe even a little enlightened to read where things go from there.
Starting With The Obvious
Giphy
The feeling of your uterus shedding it's skin inside of you.
Best description I can give is to imagine something living inside of you, just between your genetalia and belly button, that is carving into you with a knife. Then also, you get bloated, you get acne, you get super emotional, and you still have to go to work.
- envy_313
Can we talk about tryna poop during all this???
Don't Change
When we say something feels good that means don't freaking change it. Don't go faster, don't try to add more, just keep it at the same.
As a dude, even if we understand it, we suddenly become hyperaware of everything we're doing so something gets messed up because we overthink it.
Unsolicited
Unsolicited peen pics aren't a turn on.
Thank you!
I don't think most women admire them as much as men admire breasts. It's just not an attractive part of a male (not for me, anyway). They're very useful, but I'd rather see his face, his muscles, his legs, his butt...
But solicited ones are great, my husband has sent me one when he's been upstairs at home and I'm downstairs. Let's me know what's up (pun intended).
I used to think the whole unsolicited pic thing was hugely exaggerated because I couldn't imagine anyone I knew sending one and had never heard of anyone I know sending one.
Then one day I was talking to my younger sister about it, and we'd had a few drinks so she decided to name and shame some people who had sent her some. Some of whom I knew from back in school and was extremely surprised about.
Then it hit my that guys don't tell other guys that they send girls unsolicited dick pic cause it's embarrassing. But they're everywhere.
Messed Up Emotional Upbringings
- A lot of us have been raised to do most of the emotional labor around the house, which includes being privy to escalating situations by noticing even the most seemingly insignificant changes in people. This is part of why what men regard as "hints" that they never catch are very obvious signs to women. Also why a lot of us think our bfs are mad at us when they suddenly go quiet :/ at least that's how it was in my household...quiet usually meant someone was about to pop off.
- "Why do women say they're fine when they're not?" Because a lot of us have been raised to keep our needs to ourselves and to not be "needy" or "a nag".
Neither of the above are excuses for the situations that arise...just possible explanations...I really enjoy reading the threads like this that ask men for their input. Both of us are victims of messed up emotional upbringings.
Not How It Works
Having sex with numerous people doesn't loosen a damn vagina! And somehow a lot of men don't understand this
- envy_313
"So how many women have you been with?"
"Tons."
"Wow. Guess your manhood must be pretty bendy and limp by now, huh?"
Constant Fear
The feeling of being always scared.
Scared at night
Scared in a 1-1 meeting with a male college who is angry
Scared of standing up against sexual harassment
Scared of being called a liar if you call somebody out on there sh!t or being told "it was just a joke"
Scared with tradies in your house when you're alone
Scared of the guy on the bus talking to you while staring at anything but your face
Scared on being in a taxi or Uber alone
Just the general feeling that it's never safe. I live in a safe suburb in a relatively safe city in a relatively safe country. Yet we are always on high alert.
Advice from early childhood into adulthood: Walk with a friend. Tell somebody where you are going. Carry your keys in between your fingers. Etc.
And that constant fear is so normalized, most of us don't recognize it as fear. Because we're taught that mature, responsible, smart women always fear for their safety. So there's almost a weird sense of security in that constant fear.
Oh, and also reminding other women to be afraid means you care, not that you're an alarmist psycho.
Just People
That we're just people, like you. We're not mysterious, soft creatures. We're not an endless fountain of emotional nurturing, in fact, many of us are just as bad at expressing our emotions or comforting people as you are.
We have hopes, dreams, interests, strengths and weaknesses. We don't all cry. We don't necessarily give a sh!t about clothes, or makeup, or decorating, or child-rearing. We aren't a monolith and we aren't all alike, we vary as individuals just like you.
We too sit around doing or thinking about dumb stuff. Yes, as a kid I also built weapons out of sticks, or tried to mix household chemicals together to make them explode, or all manner of things we only attribute to boys.
If you ask me what I'm thinking, there's a good chance it's some inane random bullshit about who would beat who in a fight, or what superpower I would hate to have.
We're just like you, in many ways.
Manage Your Life
We have absolutely zero desire to clean up after you or babysit your life like you're a toddler. You're grown. Clean up your crap. Manage your life. Pull your weight. Quit bitching about how much work it all is, and how it keeps you from doing the things you'd rather spend your time on—we know because we're fucking doing your share of it, and it's wasting OUR time that we would rather spend on other things.
This, plus, don't say "I'll help, just tell me what needs to be done."
You're grown. We shouldn't have to tell you to pull your weight around the house or manage your chores as if you're a child.
These Conspiracy Theories Are Easy to Debunk | George Takei’s Oh Myyy
Betrayed
What it's like for your body to betray you constantly. It's hard to explain how my body doesn't feel like mine anymore but it bleeds and hurts and makes me emotional against my will. When I first learned this would be my reality for my entire adult life I felt a deep devastation and betrayal, which is a feeling I don't think most men have felt.
- Vamand
Pretty Hurts
Giphy
Being seen as attractive does not necessarily raise your sense of self-worth. It's an odd contradiction, as we're implicitly told to look attractive from a young age. So you'd think achieving that goal would make you very happy. And in ads beautiful people all live happy lives.
But to be looked at like a f*ckable object doesn't make me feel good about myself. I even tried posting on r/gonewild to see if it was just the public aspect of people staring, and felt just a slight feeling of shame from the well-intentioned comments. The way you look on the outside changes nothing about how you feel about yourself.
In fact, being regularly perceived as on the attractive side earns a lot of cold shoulders, dismissive attitudes, instant disapproval and snap-judgments by men and women alike. Over the years I've surmised it to be some form of "It's my turn to show this girl that looks don't get you everything."
Except it's multiple people, everywhere I go, my whole life. I'm afraid of women and have no girl friends. Men constantly ask me if I'm good at math. I can't look people in the eyes anymore.
The Name Game
Why I don't want to take someone else's name. My names MINE I like it and I want to keep it
This was something my ex husband could not wrap his head around, he took it as a personal insult when I double barrelled my name instead of just taking his, and when I suggested he also double barrell his name he openly laughed in my face.
That's The Point
You saying that you feel uncomfortable when we try and tell you about harassment that we've experienced is kinda of the point. We're uncomfortable too, and scared.
I've tried to tell a few of my guy friends about stuff that's happened to me and they've all asked me to end the conversation because it made them feel sick. They're good friends, they just can't handle it, and neither can the majority of others I've mentioned it to.
- Lexa578
Meat Curtains
Some women are self conscious about the appearance of their genitals. Hearing men joke about "meat curtains" and making fun of it is crushing. I once had a guy in my friend group after saying how he could never sleep with a girl with large labia minora because they're ugly try to get me in bed. That was a hard turn down and he didn't know why. My vulva isn't pretty and tucked in like many women's are, and only after I hit the age of 25 did I realize that most people don't care. Maybe it is the people I chose to be in my life but I have never sat around with girls talking about small dicks or foreskin and how they're gross. Never once heard a small dick joke beyond a male making it. Why ruin your chances with 50% of women by telling them (inadvertently) that their genitals are gross? It hurts us too.Good, But Not THAT Good
My two male roommates genuinely believe that penetration from the penis is one of the most godly, nut-worthy feelings on earth and they're always mad they won't be able to feel it but boy... are they wrong.
Calm Down
Giphy
I'm not mad and stop telling me to calm the fuck down. Just because I express my self in a very straight forward, no nonsense way, does not mean I'm angry or mad. It just means that I'm not afraid to voice my opinions and thoughts and I couldn't care less if you judge me for what I have to say.
The amount of times I've been told to "calm down" or "why you acting so crazy" or "you don't need to be rude" is endless and honestly I'd be a fcking millionaire if I got paid a dollar every time a man said those things to me.
When I'm mad, I'll let you know and if you cannot handle me being blunt and honest to you, please don't get pissed off and start calling me names, or else I'll be forced to ask "maybe you need to calm down?"
Emotional Labor
The concept of emotional labor.
It's so hard to explain that I spend 3+ hours a day thinking about all the other moving parts in our lives, while my boyfriend is "stressed about work." Especially when I'm also the breadwinner in the relationship and the one in a much more senior position despite being a couple years younger.
And yet, he can't understand, that sometimes I just want him to do the laundry without me having to ask. He thinks I "should just ask" the asking is part of the labor.
Choo Choo
That I have all sorts of different trains of thought choo-chooing through my mind at all times. My brain is a web browser with too many tabs open and I can't just close them. I must continually cycle through them until they are settled. Telling me to stop worrying about things will not magically stop the cycle.
Want, Not Need
Just because I don't act like I need you, doesn't mean I don't want you. I'm independent and my man communicated when we first got together that he felt a bit insecure because I didn't "need" him around.
We talked extensively, and I basically explained that because I had been single for so long, no, technically I didn't need him. At least not in the physical sense. I'd been doing everything myself for YEARS and I was just used to it. But I did need him emotionally, and more importantly, I WANTED him. And IMO, being wanted is so much better. What happens when someone who needs you, suddenly stops needing you? Then you have no further value to them. I crave him on every level, from friendship, to emotional, to physical. My body just naturally gravitates toward him.
Granted my man had some self-esteem issues from previous relationships, and we've been working together on that, but I've made more of an effort to ask for his help when something I need to do is difficult. I COULD do it, but I know he would appreciate me asking him for help.
- leese216